Great post!  I think most divorced men behave this way and actually think they will be able to please the ex, the skids and lastly,(of course) SM.

There was an old but great essay on disengagement that I am unable to find but states that the SM has her hand forced into it when biodad makes it perfectly clear he has no boundaries with the failed 1st family.  He will not parent nor discipline.  He is at the beck and call of the BM.

I wish the article were required reading after all break-ups! I’ve been no contact with my ex for almost 2 weeks now, after a disastrous last attempt to work things out (I’ll post an update blog soon.) It gets easier every day. We don’t have any kids together so that makes it easy. Most (but not all) of our problems involved his lack of appropriate boundaries with just about everyone in his life. What’s weird is that one thing i realize is that the feeling of “instant closeness” that i felt with him in the beginning was probably due to his lack of boundaries. With me. And i should have run far and fast when i saw the enmeshment he had with BM2. Live and learn.

So,   for childless couples that uncouple.. this all makes great sense.. however, it's much more complicated in situations where you still share minor children (even adult children) with an EX.

Sure, some applies.. you don't keep in contact socially.. you don't follow their social media etc.. you know your triggers when you feel nostalgic about the relationship.  But the issues in steplife actually don't have that much in common with the underlying premise of this article.. which is you broke up and are having a hard time getting over your EX.. 

Because communication is necessary when you share kids.. there will be coordination.. accommodation.. compromise with an ex when you share kids.. No, that doesn't necessarily mean you are at their beck and call.. nor do you have to accommodate every new request for money.. time.. etc.. but there is no denying there will be some amount of need for the above.. from both sides.

What people in steplife need to do is get to a point where communication is civil.. but only surrounding children issues.
Where people need to be accommodating.. is only to the extent the other person is also being accommodating.. and that if they are in a relationship.. they owe their current partner the grace of being considered in the plans/issues.. when they will impact that new partner.

I kind of liken this to there being a difference between quitting cigarettes.. and sticking to a diet plan.  You quit smoking.. you can avoid that ... you don;t need to smoke to survive... but food?  you have to eat to survive.. so you are forced to face every day.. every hour the choice to eat well.. or to not eat well.. it's not that we can just "not eat"... forever.. and be done with the struggle...  The article is written for the cigarette smoker.. because you can excise an ex from your life when there are no other ties.. but when you have kids.. it's the diet situation.. you are forced to keep some contact with the ex.. which makes it a constant battle in many cases to maintain those boundaries.

dollbabies wrote:

Having a civil, respectful co-parenting relationship does not require - or, in actuality - include enmeshment with an ex.

So true, dollbabies. Sadly, there are the exes who refuse to let go. They don't want their exes, but don't want anyone else to have them either. Civility and respect are all too often ignored. 

ESMOD wrote:

So,   for childless couples that uncouple.. this all makes great sense.. however, it's much more complicated in situations where you still share minor children (even adult children) with an EX.

Sure, some applies.. you don't keep in contact socially.. you don't follow their social media etc.. you know your triggers when you feel nostalgic about the relationship.  But the issues in steplife actually don't have that much in common with the underlying premise of this article.. which is you broke up and are having a hard time getting over your EX.. 

Because communication is necessary when you share kids.. there will be coordination.. accommodation.. compromise with an ex when you share kids.. No, that doesn't necessarily mean you are at their beck and call.. nor do you have to accommodate every new request for money.. time.. etc.. but there is no denying there will be some amount of need for the above.. from both sides.

What people in steplife need to do is get to a point where communication is civil.. but only surrounding children issues.
Where people need to be accommodating.. is only to the extent the other person is also being accommodating.. and that if they are in a relationship.. they owe their current partner the grace of being considered in the plans/issues.. when they will impact that new partner.

I kind of liken this to there being a difference between quitting cigarettes.. and sticking to a diet plan.  You quit smoking.. you can avoid that ... you don;t need to smoke to survive... but food?  you have to eat to survive.. so you are forced to face every day.. every hour the choice to eat well.. or to not eat well.. it's not that we can just "not eat"... forever.. and be done with the struggle...  The article is written for the cigarette smoker.. because you can excise an ex from your life when there are no other ties.. but when you have kids.. it's the diet situation.. you are forced to keep some contact with the ex.. which makes it a constant battle in many cases to maintain those boundaries.

There are a number of social media groups and advisors focused on High Conflict X situations.  Not specializing in blends necessarily, but they do touch on the challenges of blending in a relationship following a breakup with an HC X.  For many with HC personalities, there is no "following".  Their HC behaviors pretty much never end.

The example of the diet situation and having to constantly battle to maintain commitment to boundaries is the perfect synonym.  

IMHO it comes down to just about a pure situation of behavioral modification.  What gets monitored and enforced gets complied with.  Enforcement requires some flexibility but also a primary focus on modifying the behavior of those whoI repeatedly choose to violate the boundaries and standards.  Positive reinforcement for compliance and escalating abject misery for deviation from the boundary and standards drive behavioral modification and compliance.

I have made a solid career out of change management related to organizational culture and human behavior within those organizations.   Understand it, measure it, monitor it, train and support, and for those who refuse to comply, apply consequences.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Overinvestment in the noncompliant individuals is a waste of time and effort.  Distilling it all down to a direct and simple binary model saves a ton of angst for the people who actually care.  Are the standards/boundaries complied with, or not.  1/0.  Ones or zeros.   This helps simplify issues with an X, with kids, and between partners.  Not to completely filter out discussion, alignment, and agreement.  But to cut to the chase to solve a problem rather than beating around a bush and repeating never ending ineffective efforts.  Focus on effective then move on until "they" choose to test the defenses again.

Demming and Drucker have powerful quotes that I fall back on often in my work referencing them as key issues.

Key issue #1 - Measurement

"If you can't measure it, you can't manage it".  Demming

This is where the structures of boundaries and standards come into play.  Sadly, a blend can be a simmering cesspool of feral chaos which cannot be fixed or even survive if it cannot be managed. Set and enforce the standards and boundaries that we require in our lives, homes, relationships, and families.  The measurement is simple. Does someone comply with the standards/boundaries, or do they not comply.  KISS


Key issue #2 - Take Action

"Diagnosis divorced from corrective action is sterile."  Peter Drucker

In other words, if you don't intend to do anything about it, don't waste time and resources measuring it.... or even discussing it.

So many of us, those in a blend, invest incessantly in diagnosis and trying to understand the why of the choices of the toxic people and behaviors we experience.  We Dx continually but seem for some reason to avoid the corrective action part.  For the difficult, there is rarely success loving and caring them through it.  Our own community is a poster example of that.  We see it in Xs, we see it in kids, we see it in partners, and we not infrequently see it in ourselves.

In the blend, if it does not bother you enough to do something about it, then do not keep chewing on it and letting it detract from your life.  Though even I recognize that relationships do not fit well into the no gray area model.  This does not mean that we tolerate violations of standards and boundaries.  If anything, IMHO, it means we defend those things with absolute fury when those who continually assault the hill we have made it clear we will die on.  They may never stop their assault, but we must make sure that each time they mount a new campaign, they retreat back to their hole under their slime covered rock to lick their wounds.  If they choose to repeatedly attack the standards and boundaries, they choose to suffer the pain of consequence. 

In the interest of our self-preservation, having clarity that their assault does not hurt us because we are confident and clear in our boundaries and standards is critical.  The goal IMHO is that the pain of their failed efforts sends a lesson on the difference between their outcomes when they behave reasonably and the pain they self-invoke when they choose to not behave reasonably.  They choose the path of pain, we have to bring the pain.

Discomfort modifies behavior.  To care for ourselves, we have to abandon our own discomfort and invoke it in the lives of those who are the problem.






 

Last edited by Rags (11/17/2025 2:01 pm)

MorningMia wrote:

I would add that you need to give the other person the room and space to move on with someone else and not be that hovering ghost hanging around.
 

Good point. I thought an exgf could hang out as friends - we stopped dating because there wasn't any spark. That's what I thought. Until the 4-5 time we're out and I caught her telling a lady to back off that I was hers. Whaaaat?? There was spark on her side and she figured us hanging out would generate spark for me.