My SDs got PAS'd to a horrifying extent - and were still so in their teen years - I remember SD28 kicking DH's car and calling him a SeeYouNextTuesday, but DH kept on trying to be close to them, whilst giving their mother way over the amount of money that would have been court ordered,  and I suppose it worked, kind of.  Of course I didn't try at all - and so I became persona non grata to them, although I continued to cook nice food for them on their occasional visits to us. 

Same here. Correspondence was sent back unopened "refused."  Gifts were complained about.  Mail was intercepted.  Before StepTalk,I received the same advice as your step naive counselor from a well heeled dad who was in a similar situation but NO WHERE NEAR the guerilla warfare, scorched earth PAS policy that the whole Gir clan was implementing.

It's sad.. I mean.. I understand some of the motivation behind people trying to PAS their kids (not that it's right.. but I can see someone trying to exclude someone who was toxic to them... or because they are afraid they will lose access to the kids.. or the finances associated).

But.. what I don't think parents who do that understand is they are putting a lot of trauma and lifelong dysfunction into their kids' lives.  I mean.. there is wistfulness from the marginalized parties.. but that kid also is going to deal with the sorrow, wistfulness and anger at a parent for not being in their life.. even as adults.. because the brainwashing has been so complete.  

We were lucky because my SD's were able to fend off a lot of attempts.. but even today as full on adults.. they have to deal with guilt trips from their mother over contact with their dad.. it is very sad.

That the SpermClan was heavily committed to and invested in PASing SS for the entire 16+ years of the CO with only having 7wks of visitation per year, that they only exercised intermittently, is absolute confirmation of how truly stupid they all are and have always been..

While they did not succeed in PASing SS, they certainly succeeded in eliminating themselves from his life with their manipulative PASing crap.  We never attempted to PAS them or deny visitation. Though to counter their PAS and manipulative hate campaign applied to SS to try to get him to hate his mother we did adapt the age-appropriate introduction to the facts model.  We chose that route when SS would return from SpermLand visitation and ask questions.  Rather than give him our opinion, we started introducing him to the facts and escalated that model as he grew up asking ever more mature questions about the SpermClan's behaviors, lies, and manipulating crap.

We generally do not do wistful.  We take action rather than longing, or regretting what might have been or is very unlikely to ever be.  However, I do regret that SS has had to experience the baggage that so permiates the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool.  It really did not have to be that way.  They invested in making it that way.  That is my wistful regret in the blend that we have lived tother.

Last edited by Rags (10/09/2025 11:09 pm)

I don't think I've posted this article on Step Chat - if I have, apologies - I did post it on Step Talk.  It's a good article about the genesis of PAS - posted originally on the website Good Therapy.  Here is an excerpt:
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/child-or-weapon-psychological-dynamics-of-parental-alienation-0615174

According to Dr. C.A. Childress, attachment-based parental alienation is created when a person with narcissistic tendencies gets their child to reject the other parent as a way to modulate the narcissistic parent’s anxiety. According to Childress, this anxiety is threefold:

Narcissistic anxiety: Tremendous anxiety over the threatened collapse of the narcissistic defense against the experience of deep personal inadequacy.
Borderline anxiety: Intense anxiety surrounding overwhelming fear of abandonment.
Trauma anxiety: Reactivated anxiety (emotional flashback) of childhood attachment trauma.

In essence, the parent with narcissism is trying to resolve these anxieties by creating a drama involving themselves (the perceived “competent/good” parent), the other parent (the “abusive” parent), and the child (the “victim” of the “abusive” parent). (Quotation marks are used to emphasize these are perceptions being created by the person with narcissism.)The other parent is pitted against their child in order to regulate the anxieties of the alienating parent. The parent with narcissism essentially uses the child as a regulatory object to assuage deep anxieties via this created drama, wherein the narcissistic parent gets to be perceived as the “normal” or “good” parent while “rescuing” the child from the other, “crazy,” alienated parent.

Last edited by Kes (10/11/2025 5:29 am)

Kes wrote:

I don't think I've posted this article on Step Chat - if I have, apologies - I did post it on Step Talk.  It's a good article about the genesis of PAS - posted originally on the website Good Therapy.  Here is an excerpt:
https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/child-or-weapon-psychological-dynamics-of-parental-alienation-0615174

According to Dr. C.A. Childress, attachment-based parental alienation is created when a person with narcissistic tendencies gets their child to reject the other parent as a way to modulate the narcissistic parent’s anxiety. According to Childress, this anxiety is threefold:

Narcissistic anxiety: Tremendous anxiety over the threatened collapse of the narcissistic defense against the experience of deep personal inadequacy.
Borderline anxiety: Intense anxiety surrounding overwhelming fear of abandonment.
Trauma anxiety: Reactivated anxiety (emotional flashback) of childhood attachment trauma.

In essence, the parent with narcissism is trying to resolve these anxieties by creating a drama involving themselves (the perceived “competent/good” parent), the other parent (the “abusive” parent), and the child (the “victim” of the “abusive” parent). (Quotation marks are used to emphasize these are perceptions being created by the person with narcissism.)The other parent is pitted against their child in order to regulate the anxieties of the alienating parent. The parent with narcissism essentially uses the child as a regulatory object to assuage deep anxieties via this created drama, wherein the narcissistic parent gets to be perceived as the “normal” or “good” parent while “rescuing” the child from the other, “crazy,” alienated parent.

This is some good stuff to reference.  For me, it is game on when a Narc plies their crap.  If they have anxieties of inadequacy that they weaponize towards the kids and the quality side, it is the duty of the quality side to destroy the PASing narc by forcing the broad knowledge of and public awareness of how inadequate the narc truly is. Lather, rinse, repeat.

If the PASing Narc in the noxious opposition weaponizes their own abandonment anxieties against the kid and the quality side in the mix, it is the duty of the quality side to destroy the PASing narc by forcing the narc to face and live the abandonment that the narc fears by protecting the kids from the narc with the full facts. In an age-appropriate manner.

If the PASing narc in the noxious opposition weaponizes their fear of whatever trauma they embrace as their motivator against the kid and the quality side in the mix, it is the duty of the quality side to facilitate the most terrifying version of the trauma that the narc fears in order to deflect and protect the kids and themselves from the narc and the narcs crap.

Facts and putting a spotlight on the narc as who and what they are, their weaponized attack on the kids and the quality side is critical.  The narc's [potential mental illness bs has to be confronted to keep it from polluting the lives of the kids and the lives of the quality parent who has moved on and away from the narcs sphere of noxiosness.

Zero tolerance, full legal, financial, and publicly humiliating destruction of the narc and their crap.   If the narc chooses not to do the work to correct their own crap, then that is on them. They cannot be tolerated to pollute anyone else's lives because of their potentially batshit crazy manipulative crap.

While I do recognize that some of the narcs crap may be due to childhood experiences, I have a huge case of "so what?" regarding tolerating the narc's attempts to destroy others. The narc can and should go down in publicly humiliating flames.  I make it my fondest hobby to facilitate that as effectively and brutally as I can.

A common response from those who are empathetic is "But it isn't the narc's fault."  Umm, yes, yes it is the narcs fault.  The narc chooses their actions and behaviors. The narc should suffer the full and escalatingly painful consequences for their choices and behaviors.  Even if they narc does have some ostinsibly legitimate pseudo science Dx of the syndrome of the moment.

IMHO of course.



Blow it up!  Blow them up!  That applies to the narc of course.




 

Last edited by Rags (10/11/2025 3:44 pm)

Oh yeah, right out of the How to be Selfish playbook. Just like mine.

Riding on gravel sounds hard! Good for him for challenging himself.

Kes wrote:

It is much harder than riding on the road which was all he'd done up until yesterday!  He got gravel tyres put on especially, but it was hard.  I'm furious with the Madams for not supporting their Dad. Goodness knows he's supported them, both financially and emotionally, and continues to do so. 

In my cycling days, I was into mountain biking and trail riding. I also did some road work, but my preference was trails.  I had a very high-end mountain bike stolen not long after my divorce which significantly reduced my passion for it.

Congratulations to your DH for his gravel race and his commitment to miles.

I am sorry that his own children have been found so lacking.  The upside is that he has you, your children, and your GKs to cheer and congratulate him.


 

Kes wrote:

Thank you Rags. I would be surprised if he takes to gravel riding in a big way - he has a hybrid road/off road bike, but had special gravel tyres put on for this event. 

One of my best friends was an avid road cyclist.  He would give me a hard time about mountain biking.  He was such an avid cyclist that he had a Tommasini made to his personal measurements.  Once he tried trail riding, he was hooked. Though his heart and most of his miles remained on the roads.  I'm not sure if he is still putting road or trail miles in these days. It has been 40 years.