Now things are about a ba-zillion times worse, as DH talked to SD on the phone in hopes, as I had hoped, that SD would learn to actually be "respectful" when dealing with me. Well, that went very sour, very quickly. Now, SD has completely drawn her sword and twisted this all back around to make me, once again, the bad guy. My heartrate and anxiety is through the roof, I'm not sure what to do. 

Step-out I have this scenario/pattern with a sibling that I finally recognized about a year ago, got some help and re-arranged my life order. There is NO changing the pattern - it's cemented in their thinking, they've created a distorted reality that fits their narrative and you are simply a pawn in that patterned thinking. ALL you can do it disengage for good - don't get involved, don't defend yourself at all only compartmentalize this and don't get involved with this SKID. She's in her 30s...this is a well established pattern. And you're right she is likely a narcissist they do this karpmann's drama triangle thing with someone as the habitual bad guy - you. Just stay out of it completely- you've got nothing to prove and the minute she tries to upend your life with her problems ask yourself - I ONLY step in if it impact my space or resources. If DH wants to get involved as long as it's not impacting you in those ways then just stay out of it. 

These people are patterned and they never gain insight into their behaviors they simply project their feelings, behaviors and actions onto others. They are empty inside and it's not going to change.

Rags wrote:

@ImperfectlyPerfect - These people do seem to be locking into the doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different outcome loop.

For much of my SParent and STalk career I was not much of a fan of disengagement.  Zero tolerance and direct discussion was usually my default.  I have gained a level of respect for disengagement though I do tend to temper it with intolerance for toxic.  One adjustment that I have evolved at an almost subconscious level over the years is "Say what you mean, but don't say it mean." Be direct, be assertive, but do not be mean about it.  

Though for these types being direct is in their mind and feelings, mean.  I am not one to embrace the toxic.  I can embrace the person but not the toxic.  So, to be embraced, they must earn it with reasonable behavior.  Not mean, it just is what it is.

I like this logic @Rags- yes sometimes you can engage the person and disengage the toxic, other times the person is simply too toxic -its who they are and there's just no way to fix the situation other times the reality is wayyy too distorted and it serves some personal need thus they are incentivized to stay toxic. No matter the scenario it's either confront if you think anything can change or back out if there is nothing that can change. At this point I've heard sibling and SKID make incredible accusations about me that were simply lies - by confronting those lies I have found they double down even when presented with evidence to the contrary. They are entrenched, they 100% believe this and nothing anyone can do can make a difference- why waste any more time?

When this stuff goes to third parties which it inevidetably does - if I think the 3rd party is worth being told the truth and can handle the truth then sure happy to provide it otherwise I don't give it a single bit of space in my memory bank. 

Rags wrote:

ImperfectlyPerfect wrote:

Rags wrote:

@ImperfectlyPerfect - These people do seem to be locking into the doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different outcome loop.

For much of my SParent and STalk career I was not much of a fan of disengagement.  Zero tolerance and direct discussion was usually my default.  I have gained a level of respect for disengagement though I do tend to temper it with intolerance for toxic.  One adjustment that I have evolved at an almost subconscious level over the years is "Say what you mean, but don't say it mean." Be direct, be assertive, but do not be mean about it.  

Though for these types being direct is in their mind and feelings, mean.  I am not one to embrace the toxic.  I can embrace the person but not the toxic.  So, to be embraced, they must earn it with reasonable behavior.  Not mean, it just is what it is.

I like this logic @Rags- yes sometimes you can engage the person and disengage the toxic, other times the person is simply too toxic -its who they are and there's just no way to fix the situation other times the reality is wayyy too distorted and it serves some personal need thus they are incentivized to stay toxic. No matter the scenario it's either confront if you think anything can change or back out if there is nothing that can change. At this point I've heard sibling and SKID make incredible accusations about me that were simply lies - by confronting those lies I have found they double down even when presented with evidence to the contrary. They are entrenched, they 100% believe this and nothing anyone can do can make a difference- why waste any more time?

When this stuff goes to third parties which it inevidetably does - if I think the 3rd party is worth being told the truth and can handle the truth then sure happy to provide it otherwise I don't give it a single bit of space in my memory bank. 

Don't say it mean aligns with "be nice until it is time to not be nice" IMHO.  Part of the whole balance is to deny the toxic person the benefit that they feel they get by being toxic.  That is where instead of not saying it mean, you bring an escalating level of abject misery to bear that is never ending until they make better choices.  If they get pain for the toxicity that might usually get them something that they desire, eventually pain will modify their behavior, or they will avoid the source of their escalating abject misery.  Either way, we win.

At least that worked for me/us during our 16+years of battling the toxic opposition under the CO and also continues to be effective in dealing with the manipulative and toxic elements of my IL clan.  Those who invest in toxicity do not like having that toxicity return an escalating state of abject misery. Even though they clearly earn it.
 

the challenge with my toxic SKIDs and some of their followers is escalating abject misery will only help build their victim narrative - woe is me! Better to just realize there's nothing that I can do to fix this and wipe my hands clean of it all. Unless there's a big accusation that would put me in a very perilous situation I really don't need to get involved. One time a SKID insinuated abuse- that's about the only time I was HOT on his trail- when? where? what happened? Please tell us and certainly if this occurred we have to keep you safe and if it means safe from stepmom of course! He got stuck in his lie and realized he was out of his depth...I don't know if it stopped him from telling the lies to others but that was serious enough for me to escalate it.

On the other hand when he blamed me for ruining his professional football career and did it infront of MY parents that was a situation where it was so unbelievable (not in shape, not athletic enough or discipline enough for pro) I simply looked at his fancy cleats and said well my paycheck paid for your uniform and shoes but alas even with evidence to the contrary that's a story he told himself too many times and now believes. Never going to be able to change that distorted reality and frankly I have better places to put my energy. 
 

Rags wrote:

@ImperfectlyPerfect - On the other hand when he blamed me for ruining his professional football career and did it infront of MY parents that was a situation where it was so unbelievable (not in shape, not athletic enough or discipline enough for pro) I simply looked at his fancy cleats and said well my paycheck paid for your uniform and shoes but alas even with evidence to the contrary that's a story he told himself too many times and now believes.

What, did you miss taking him his orange slices at one of his pro practices and throw off his game?  Lol. I think I would have a ton of fun at his expense with this one. A toxic young kidult thinking that anyone but themselves can ruin their dreams of professional sports greatness could be a very entertaining long term source of mirth at their expense.  It would be even more fun to take advantage of with an older kidult.



I know. Bad Rags, bad.

It's actually pretty funny- my parents and I go back and forth with this one all the time...years later. "Well....if YOU hadn't ruined his pro career..." We have had soooo much fun with that delusion. To add to the evidence that there was NO professional athletic career, the SKID does not have very good eye sight and has one eye that drifts (what's called lazy eye)- I mean...that's on top of being average and below average on everything athletic. this is just honest - we can't all be good at everything but his grandiosity was off the charts. It's hard to even look at the situation and not chuckle. Laugh away, I think that's all it's worth. ...wonder if he still tells that tale? Probably.