Step Chat - a safe place where stepparents can vent » Punishments

MorningMia · 10/13/2025 1:12 pm

Where does this whole idea of punishing people who have wronged you or, more importantly, who don't do things your way come from--and what is the rationale? Do punished people ever change? I'm not talking about a kid who has violated a rule and feels the repercussions; I mean the punishments many of us have been the recipient of because we did not do things the way BM and/or the skids WANTED. We were not puppets.

Our "punishments" through the years:
Not speaking to us for 2 years (SD, early on)
Being rude to us--especially me--in our home
Either not giving gifts/acknowledging holidays or only acknowledging DH (giving me the middle finger)
Talking about BM incessantly while in our home (really?)
Snide remarks/comments
Obvious using behavior
Being snubbed (and worse) at a wedding

These are not normal reactions to real problems or issues. They are and have always been thought-out, well-planned "punishments." What is mind-boggling to me is this: Do these people think they are going to get what they want by acting this way? It normally does the opposite, which is what has happened here.
My skids are and have been missing out on quality time with their father, who is now aging. They missed out on members of my family embracing them. They missed out on good relationships with me, who happens to be "the favorite aunt" in the family. They missed out on different/wider perspectives. Although during the early years, I felt somewhat tortured, I soon realized that these idiots primarily and mostly hurt themselves through their punishing behavior.
BM? She might be--no, is--the tortured person now. NOTHING went the way she planned. She failed. Miserably. And all we did was protect ourselves and not give in to their unrealistic and horrible demands.

ESMOD · 10/13/2025 2:42 pm

Some people are so miserable with their own selves.. they have to figure out a way to spread that misery around.

ImperfectlyPerfect · 10/13/2025 4:24 pm

Their narrow box of the world will continue to get more and more narrow. I watch from the sidelines now. I've been punished plenty and now I take ZERO initiative, zero effort to do things. I am very conscious person and truly roll out the red carpet - did that many times with the SKIDs only to be punished. Always to their dissatisfaction, "that's not how my real family does this..." Now they are adults and I just see a look of disdain at anything I do. We've gotten to the point where they just straight up ignore me. Now my conscious tells me to stand down- it's against my nature not to host, feed, care for but I've learned to literally just mind my own business and get focused in a hobby or something I love. I even make up hobbies when they visit just to leave the scene. It's wonderful, we all win. They can't punish me any more and I don't have to be punished. WIN WIN.

Rags · 10/13/2025 5:32 pm

When those who are unreasonable attempt to punish the reasonable into compliance with unreasonable demands or expectations, that is when it is game on and the unreasonable should face incredibly unpleasant consequences for their chosen actions and behaviors.

Reasonable people respond with consequences. Unreasonable people get their feelings hurt and try to punish in response.

I know at some level that the difference between punishment and consequence is little more than semantics. However, the difference is at the level of the core behaviors. Were they reasonable or were they unreasonable. That is a clearly black and white line IMHO.

One is wrong, the other isn't.

IMHO of course.

Tryingjusttrying · 10/14/2025 8:58 am

@MorningMia, I have a long-winded explanation, so please read as much or little of this as you please. I've reflected on this, and I believe that our SKs' desire to punish us comes from an unholy combination of deeply ingrained natural instincts to want to right a wrong, and their inability to distinguish right and wrong accurately.

Researchers at Yale did a study on babies to determine whether we are born with innate morality, born morally neutral, or predisposed to immorality. They made a number of conclusions including the fact that humans are born with a natural sense of morality, and in particular a sense of justice. But that sense of justice had a dark side: babies preferred "good" puppets who were helpful and similar to them. But they also wanted to PUNISH those who were "bad" or different. So sadly, they concluded that humans are vulnerable to racism, etc. because babies naturally disliked differences in others, even preferences for snacks. One lesson could be that we need to be proactive about finding commonalities with others.

Anyway, they tested a number of scenarios at different ages, and the conclusion was the same: we are born to seek justice, and that often means harming those who wrong us. It is apparently very deeply ingrained in us. There was a 60 minutes report on this about a dozen years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRvVFW85IcU

I read another article which argued that revenge-seeking is evolutionary advantageous because you want to signal to your environment that if anyone puts a cost onto you, you're going to make sure they pay a price, which makes it less likely that people will try to harm you. Again, it adds to the argument that seeking punishment is deeply ingrained.

To be honest, the reason I did a deep dive on this issue is not to understand SS better, but to understand my own reactions to SS better. I felt guilty for feeling resentful and for sometimes wishing SS to fail at something that I thought he didn't deserve because he cheated, etc. It felt so unkind to wish SS was deprived of something he wanted. I decided that it's a feeling that probably stems from a primordial instinct to prefer right from wrong, but that a person needn't and probably shouldn't act on all of these impulses. Just because something is natural doesn't make it right.

But that's how I understand SS's attacks on me. When you also have someone who could be personality disordered, and they are perceiving being wronged all of the time even when it's not true, you have someone constantly trying to punish you. To be on the receiving end of that feels very unsafe. I decided that I cannot be expected to respond kindly, sympathetically, etc. to SS if I feel unsafe. Maybe one day I can make peace with SS the way DH wants me to, but so long as I'm feeling unsafe, my inclination is going to be to protect myself. The best I can do for now is take stock of my own reactions and to make sure I don't treat anyone unjustly because of my own perceptions of injustice.

ESMOD · 10/14/2025 9:33 am

Re the babies.. I'm guessing that there is some survivability factor to babies favoring people they most resemble.. because it would be family... that would generally be most protective.. vs a hyena for example.
I think that it would be to an extent... difficult to project such preferences in infants as some sign of morality.. at that level.. the babies just want to do what is needed to survive.. they aren't having moral discourse in their heads.

Rags · 10/14/2025 9:36 am

A visceral revulsion towards someone who is unkind towards us is earned and completely natural. To avoid the self-induced guilt, I like boundaries. Someone violates boundaries by making a choice. So not only are they choosing to violate the boundary, but they are also choosing the consequences.

This keeps things clean in my mind. Both the violation and the consequence are things they are choosing to occur.

My gray world is so simple!

Tryingjusttrying · 10/14/2025 11:47 am

@Esmod, I think you're right and ultimately, I think all inherited traits come down to survival. I don't think that the Yale psychologists would disagree with you. But it's novel to posit cooperation and pro-social traits as aiding survival. In the past, philosophers like Hobbes and biologists like Dawkins presumed that survival went along without question with aggression and selfishness, and the good was just made up and artificial. So the idea that we are predisposed towards the "good" was an untested hypothesis that these researchers think they now have evidence for. It's just that when there is a notion of what is "good", you're also setting up terms of what makes something "bad" and that's when it gets dark.

@Rags, you've taught me a lot about setting and enforcing boundaries. I over-think things, and one result is that I can spin myself into a circle of justifications and reasons. But boundaries have to be black and white to some extent. 'I don't care if you don't agree. I'm telling you that I'm not going to accept that behavior." period.

MorningMia · 10/15/2025 6:03 am

Fascinating, Trying. So, to summarize, our skids are like untrained monkeys while we are, well, the trained monkeys. J/K.

But it does make perfect sense, and I agree with Esmod (and you) that it isn't necessarily morality (although we label things moral and immoral as guidelines, I suppose) but survival. It seems even like simple instinctual resource guarding. . . if another woman comes into Dad's life, she will be taking away resources from us, especially if they have children together.

While reading what you wrote, I was thinking of my skids and how they seemed to feel compelled to act out and punish, like they were acting on some instinctive drive (thus the untrained monkey half-joke).

There has been that chilling observation that chimps, our closest DNA relatives, can also be very aggressive, start wars, and hurt others for no apparent reason. On the flip side, studies showing how cooperation advances species. So interesting.

So, some of us choose/learn to control what might be instinctive for survival while others don't. I imagine that a base survival instinct, when fed gasoline by a BM, turns into what many of us have seen.

Aniki-Moderator · 10/15/2025 8:51 am

I don't regard BioHo's attempts to shove me into a mold as punishment. I consider it countless failed attempts to manipulate me using the skids as leverage.

As for the skids? Some of the things they did were due to:
• testing boundaries, as kids often do;
• trying to stay on 'Ho's good side by making me out to be the bad guy. If they admitted that they actually liked me, there would have been hell to pay.

No one can punish me. They can only try to manipulate or guilt me into doing what they want, which I find ridiculous and laughable.

Rags · 10/15/2025 1:56 pm

Tryingjusttrying wrote:
@Rags, you've taught me a lot about setting and enforcing boundaries. I over-think things, and one result is that I can spin myself into a circle of justifications and reasons. But boundaries have to be black and white to some extent. 'I don't care if you don't agree. I'm telling you that I'm not going to accept that behavior." period.

I am a pragmatist. I am also a data and analysis guy. However, I am intuitive and far more often than not I find that my initial observations are actionally accurate. From there I modify and adjust to make action as effective as I can.

Boundaries keep things very simple, and clearly categorizes the choices of those who violate them as their choice and makes it clear that accountability and consequences are in order in response. Their call. Both the behaviors that violate the boundary, and the immediate suffering of consequences. They choose to suffer the consequences when they choose to perpetrate the behaviors. What they do not get to choose is what those consequences are going to be. That is entirely our choice. IMHO the consequences need to be immediate, continuously escalating in response to repeat boundary violations, and very very unpleasant.

For these types of people, discomfort and unpleasantness is a far more effective teaching method than are tolerance and compassion. Recognize their feelings, counter the feelings with facts. If they choose to repeat their choice of unreasonable behaviors, then apply reality.

IMHO of course.

Last edited by Rags (10/15/2025 5:07 pm)

Rags · 10/15/2025 5:22 pm

Aniki-Moderator wrote:
I don't regard BioHo's attempts to shove me into a mold as punishment. I consider it countless failed attempts to manipulate me using the skids as leverage.

As for the skids? Some of the things they did were due to:
• testing boundaries, as kids often do;
• trying to stay on 'Ho's good side by making me out to be the bad guy. If they admitted that they actually liked me, there would have been hell to pay.

No one can punish me. They can only try to manipulate or guilt me into doing what they want, which I find ridiculous and laughable.

Aniki,

Conversely, behaving unreasonably towards their father and towards you at the behest of BioHo should also return hell to pay. With that hell including repeat review of the facts and truth. If they choose to ignore the facts and truty, then rolling those up, and beating the proverbial snot out of the perpetrators of unreasonableness including BioHo and the kids who drink the noxious Kool-Aid is in order. They all choose the behaviors they perpetrate. They must be force fed the consequences.

IMHO of course.

Our situation was intermittently contentious at worst. Our kid was always extremely observant, and we did not have a lot of opposition induced drama from him. The drama we lived with was direct from them or via their manipulation of SS who learned very early to just ask us if something they said or did was not cosher to his own smell test of reasonableness. When he was mid-single digit aged his approach was initially aggressive and driven by anger and hurt that his mom and I were mean and taking food, etc., away from his younger half sibs. We did not punish him, we talked to him. As he grew older, we increasingly reviewed the facts, CO, court docs, court reporter recordings, answering machine messages, recorded phone calls (we lived in a single party consent State), journals, arrest records, PI reports, etc....

Building the foundation platform of facts and discussing things as they unfolded was very effective in countering the toxicity. Clearly made easier and more effective due to my DW having full physical and legal custody and visitation being long distance.

Last edited by Rags (10/15/2025 7:21 pm)

Aniki-Moderator · 10/15/2025 5:50 pm

We will have to agree to disagree, Rags. I understand why the skids acted the way they did. In part, because they believed the lies at that time. And also, in part, for self preservation.

Our situation was a living nightmare, but DH and I made the decision to stay our course and continue being ourselves without bashing BioHo or putting the skids in an awkward position, feeling that they had to choose sides or deal with a situation that was over their heads. We allowed them to be kids. The skids learned the truth without us trying to sway them.

What you did worked for your situation, but it's not a universal solution. Neither is ours. My point is that there is more than one way to take action.

Tryingjusttrying · 10/15/2025 6:11 pm

@Morningmia, Lol this: "So, to summarize, our skids are like untrained monkeys while we are, well, the trained monkeys. J/K." Funny enough, that sums it up.

@Aniki, that's true, let's not forget triangulation by the BM. I'm not sure how much she plays a role in my case, but I'm pretty sure she does because I've seen her try to triangulate dh and SS, dh and me and others. I know one instance in which BM told SS how bad her sister thought SS was, which is so s***ty. It was during a time when BM was fighting with her sister, so she said that in order to get SS on her side. But it became much bigger than that. Ever since, SS has been brutally hostile even calling her a "slut". OMG! That's his aunt, for heaven's sake. I don't think they're ever spending a holiday together anymore. In any case, it goes back, in my mind, to feeling wronged and wanting to punish the wrongdoer. Like Morningmia said, kind of like throwing gasoline on fire.

@Rags, I think it's my lack of security in myself that makes me easily swayable. But two weeks ago when SS came for the surprise visit, I offered a solution that I thought would work for me. If SS comes to visit without warning, dh and SS should go out, and not come over here. DH tried to do the whole dance trying to erode my stance by questioning me and gaslighting me. But I just said point blank, "Are you going to honor my request or not?" At first he said 'no' because he was mad and then softened his position. But he was kind of taken aback because I'm usually so amenable to his persuasion.

Rags · 10/15/2025 7:55 pm

Aniki-Moderator wrote:
We will have to agree to disagree, Rags. I understand why the skids acted the way they did. In part, because they believed the lies at that time. And also, in part, for self preservation.

Our situation was a living nightmare, but DH and I made the decision to stay our course and continue being ourselves without bashing BioHo or putting the skids in an awkward position, feeling that they had to choose sides or deal with a situation that was over their heads. We allowed them to be kids. The skids learned the truth without us trying to sway them.

What you did worked for your situation, but it's not a universal solution. Neither is ours. My point is that there is more than one way to take action.

No doubt that there is any number of if not infinite options for skinning the blended family cat. So, to speak. No one way is universally right or effective. Boundaries are a go to for me because they are simple. Set and enforce the boundary. No need to badmouth or sway anyone. My go to on facts helps me keep it simple. They are neither good nor bad. They are merely facts. Highlighting the truth and facts is not badmouthing. At least from my perspective.

They are extremely effective as a direct counter to the lies so often perpetrated by the manipulative side of the equation. IMHO self-preservation for a kid should not mean allowing them to drink the Kool-Aid from the manipulative side without sweetening with the facts.

One of my go to's with all of this when working with SS during the CO years was "Son, that is not entirely accurate. I'm not sure why they may think what they think, but here are the facts. Check out line XYZ-LMNOP in (document, journal page, court recording, supplemental county rule, State regulation) ABC."

He would simmer on it for a while. Sometimes comming back to us with questions on why they would do whatever it was they were doing, lying, etc...? We just answered directly and as supportively of him as we could be while countering their manipulation. Sometimes he would not mention it again. Other times he would call them on it it directly on his next SpermLand visitation. They did not like that much at all and when that happened they would call to rant at his mom which... we would record and not infrequently replay for him when he came home from a visitation where he had called them out on lies, etc, and they had said or done something else that he clearly recognized as inaccurate or manipulative..

I do have regrets about the stress it all caused him. Though their lies are and were entirely on them. We only countered. We never attacked them or manipulated him.

An interesting thing was when his mom was considering having another kid and asked him about it. He confidently and very clearly said that he did not want another sibling at the home where he could be a kid and not have to be anything but a kid being a kid. That struck me as meaningful as I always second guessed our structure and what no small number of friends and some family verbalized was too strict on him.

I am glad that you and your DH landed on something that allowed you to be who you are and that you were comfortable with. And that the kids were able to work through well enough for their adulthoods to not be insanely BioHo centric.

MorningMia · 10/16/2025 5:53 am

Aniki-Moderator wrote:
I don't regard BioHo's attempts to shove me into a mold as punishment. I consider it countless failed attempts to manipulate me using the skids as leverage.

As for the skids? Some of the things they did were due to:
• testing boundaries, as kids often do;
• trying to stay on 'Ho's good side by making me out to be the bad guy. If they admitted that they actually liked me, there would have been hell to pay.

No one can punish me. They can only try to manipulate or guilt me into doing what they want, which I find ridiculous and laughable.

Ah, this sounds like the very early days here. We held our course like you all, but that wasn't acceptable and the beatings began.

Aniki-Moderator · 10/16/2025 6:20 am

MorningMia, what we did worked for us. We were basically an unyielding wall. It's not a solution for everyone.

Rags · 10/16/2025 1:05 pm

Aniki-Moderator wrote:
MorningMia, what we did worked for us. We were basically an unyielding wall. It's not a solution for everyone.

I like the unyielding wall description. We were more like the unopposable force. They tried to be the unmovable object. The thing is, that the unopposable force will always erode the unmovable object. The analogy in my head is an erosion process. Over time the force will turn the object into grains of sand.

I think that the key is the "We" part. That is where success is. No model works for everyone or is appropriate for all situations. However, "We" can adapt. Your "We" was unassailable. The other side learned from that, as no doubt you and DH did as well.

The example that you and DH have lived, likely on some level has saved your SKids from a huge amount of pain in their lives.

LifeIsTough · 10/16/2025 2:24 pm

ImperfectlyPerfect wrote:
Their narrow box of the world will continue to get more and more narrow. I watch from the sidelines now. I've been punished plenty and now I take ZERO initiative, zero effort to do things. I am very conscious person and truly roll out the red carpet - did that many times with the SKIDs only to be punished. Always to their dissatisfaction, "that's not how my real family does this..." Now they are adults and I just see a look of disdain at anything I do. We've gotten to the point where they just straight up ignore me. Now my conscious tells me to stand down- it's against my nature not to host, feed, care for but I've learned to literally just mind my own business and get focused in a hobby or something I love. I even make up hobbies when they visit just to leave the scene. It's wonderful, we all win. They can't punish me any more and I don't have to be punished. WIN WIN.

This sounds like my situation. However the skids are 15 and 11 but the real issue is between me and the 15 year old little scrote who just doesn't want to like me anymore. There is no love between me and her and whether she likes to admit it or not, every time she is here i am barely acknowledged, or only when it suits. I am forced to interact around the table just so I don't explode. Her dad is in denial and just refuses to see what's going on and tonight I aired to him about how she treats me when she's in our company... and he just shrugged. He takes absolutely no accountability, I am literally on my own. I literally have nowhere to go, I have no friends (well I do, but nearly 200 miles away.. where I moved from to be with this hideous family). I am literally at make or break point.

I would love to leave the scene when they are here, but where? I just don't like being in her company anymore while d*ckhead dad just doesnt give a crap about how I feel because hes too scared to take a side. *roll eyes*

She barely comes over but she is here this weekend as her loser mum is away. She has no respect for her dad and he just accepts it. I literally hate my life and want to return back to my family 200 miles away, but I was never happy down there and I know I won't be happy if I go back! My own mind sucks at the moment. Not sure i have another 3 years in me to wait until she ticks off to uni. I hate her. She makes me anxious and uncomfortable and I just dont know how to take that power back. :-(

Aniki-Moderator · 10/16/2025 4:17 pm

Rags wrote:
Your "We" was unassailable.

Actually, we were steadfast. 🙃

Rags · 10/16/2025 5:57 pm

Aniki-Moderator wrote:
Rags wrote:
Your "We" was unassailable.

Actually, we were steadfast. 🙃

Even better.

Rags · 10/16/2025 6:10 pm

LifeIsTough wrote:
ImperfectlyPerfect wrote:
Their narrow box of the world will continue to get more and more narrow. I watch from the sidelines now. I've been punished plenty and now I take ZERO initiative, zero effort to do things. I am very conscious person and truly roll out the red carpet - did that many times with the SKIDs only to be punished. Always to their dissatisfaction, "that's not how my real family does this..." Now they are adults and I just see a look of disdain at anything I do. We've gotten to the point where they just straight up ignore me. Now my conscious tells me to stand down- it's against my nature not to host, feed, care for but I've learned to literally just mind my own business and get focused in a hobby or something I love. I even make up hobbies when they visit just to leave the scene. It's wonderful, we all win. They can't punish me any more and I don't have to be punished. WIN WIN.
This sounds like my situation. However the skids are 15 and 11 but the real issue is between me and the 15 year old little scrote who just doesn't want to like me anymore. There is no love between me and her and whether she likes to admit it or not, every time she is here i am barely acknowledged, or only when it suits. I am forced to interact around the table just so I don't explode. Her dad is in denial and just refuses to see what's going on and tonight I aired to him about how she treats me when she's in our company... and he just shrugged. He takes absolutely no accountability, I am literally on my own. I literally have nowhere to go, I have no friends (well I do, but nearly 200 miles away.. where I moved from to be with this hideous family). I am literally at make or break point.

I would love to leave the scene when they are here, but where? I just don't like being in her company anymore while d*ckhead dad just doesnt give a crap about how I feel because hes too scared to take a side. *roll eyes*

She barely comes over but she is here this weekend as her loser mum is away. She has no respect for her dad and he just accepts it. I literally hate my life and want to return back to my family 200 miles away, but I was never happy down there and I know I won't be happy if I go back! My own mind sucks at the moment. Not sure i have another 3 years in me to wait until she ticks off to uni. I hate her. She makes me anxious and uncomfortable and I just dont know how to take that power back. :-(

Hmmmmm? I see some opportunity for some fun any and every time she is in your presence.

Amplify anything and everything about you that ticks her off. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Make it your fondest hobby. Keep it fully frontal in her face overtly present so she loses her damned pea sized mind in front of daddy. Again, lather, rinse, repeat.

Never let up. Never tolerate her presence without being overbearingly irritating for her to be around. Cook only foods that make her gag. Play only music that makes her cringe. Play it loudly and regularly. Watch only movies and television that she detests. What you like, she will detest just because you like it. Engage pleasantly with the younger one catering to the likes of that one.

If the elder one insists on continuing to pollute your home, marriage, and life with her presence, up the ante in escalatingly irritating things that she detests.

Make living your best life happily the tool for making your point to her that she does not matter and she cannot detract from you living your best life. Though know this. This does not end when she goes away to uni. You will have to create and defend the boundaries and standards of behavior and performance as your hill to die on for the rest of your marriage. Noxious spawn like this nearly never changes. Part of this is continuing to increase the demands that your DH be your DH and get his spawn under control. Give him the choice. Either he does it or you will and if you have to do it no one will like it one bit.

Except for you. Remember, make it your fondest hobby.

LifeIsTough · 10/17/2025 1:33 am

Rags wrote:
LifeIsTough wrote:
ImperfectlyPerfect wrote:
Their narrow box of the world will continue to get more and more narrow. I watch from the sidelines now. I've been punished plenty and now I take ZERO initiative, zero effort to do things. I am very conscious person and truly roll out the red carpet - did that many times with the SKIDs only to be punished. Always to their dissatisfaction, "that's not how my real family does this..." Now they are adults and I just see a look of disdain at anything I do. We've gotten to the point where they just straight up ignore me. Now my conscious tells me to stand down- it's against my nature not to host, feed, care for but I've learned to literally just mind my own business and get focused in a hobby or something I love. I even make up hobbies when they visit just to leave the scene. It's wonderful, we all win. They can't punish me any more and I don't have to be punished. WIN WIN.
This sounds like my situation. However the skids are 15 and 11 but the real issue is between me and the 15 year old little scrote who just doesn't want to like me anymore. There is no love between me and her and whether she likes to admit it or not, every time she is here i am barely acknowledged, or only when it suits. I am forced to interact around the table just so I don't explode. Her dad is in denial and just refuses to see what's going on and tonight I aired to him about how she treats me when she's in our company... and he just shrugged. He takes absolutely no accountability, I am literally on my own. I literally have nowhere to go, I have no friends (well I do, but nearly 200 miles away.. where I moved from to be with this hideous family). I am literally at make or break point.

I would love to leave the scene when they are here, but where? I just don't like being in her company anymore while d*ckhead dad just doesnt give a crap about how I feel because hes too scared to take a side. *roll eyes*

She barely comes over but she is here this weekend as her loser mum is away. She has no respect for her dad and he just accepts it. I literally hate my life and want to return back to my family 200 miles away, but I was never happy down there and I know I won't be happy if I go back! My own mind sucks at the moment. Not sure i have another 3 years in me to wait until she ticks off to uni. I hate her. She makes me anxious and uncomfortable and I just dont know how to take that power back. :-(
Hmmmmm? I see some opportunity for some fun any and every time she is in your presence.

Amplify anything and everything about you that ticks her off. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Make it your fondest hobby. Keep it fully frontal in her face overtly present so she loses her damned pea sized mind in front of daddy. Again, lather, rinse, repeat.

Never let up. Never tolerate her presence without being overbearingly irritating for her to be around. Cook only foods that make her gag. Play only music that makes her cringe. Play it loudly and regularly. Watch only movies and television that she detests. What you like, she will detest just because you like it. Engage pleasantly with the younger one catering to the likes of that one.

If the elder one insists on continuing to pollute your home, marriage, and life with her presence, up the ante in escalatingly irritating things that she detests.

Make living your best life happily the tool for making your point to her that she does not matter and she cannot detract from you living your best life. Though know this. This does not end when she goes away to uni. You will have to create and defend the boundaries and standards of behavior and performance as your hill to die on for the rest of your marriage. Noxious spawn like this nearly never changes. Part of this is continuing to increase the demands that your DH be your DH and get his spawn under control. Give him the choice. Either he does it or you will and if you have to do it no one will like it one bit.

Except for you. Remember, make it your fondest hobby.

Thanks Rags, my best friend has told me to do exactly the same. Everything you have suggested.

And I do try, but the anxiety in me just exhausts me as my mind just doesnt leave the 'how can people be like this?' space. I believe I have fallen out of love with my partner since mine and her relationship went down hill. Telling him my feelings is a losing battle as he does nothing about it... fear of losing her *rolley eyes* even the conversation between them is just so fake. It's hideous. She doesnt sit in the same room as us if I am in it. When I go to bed, she comes out of her pit and sits in the lounge with her dad. It's like he is blind to it. It is tough. And lonely. I want a new start but I dont want to go back home :-(

Kes · 10/17/2025 5:05 am

I don't like Rags' advice to make the SKID's life hell. It smacks to me of game-playing plus it would be pretty obvious to everyone that that is what you're doing. Plus I was bullied as a child and this feels very much like bullying. I prefer my own solution that I now refuse to be in SD30's company since her abuse of me in 2022. She can come here - I won't ban my steps from being in what is DH's home as well as mine - but I will go elsewhere for the duration.

Aniki-Moderator · 10/17/2025 6:27 am

Kes wrote:
I don't like Rags' advice to make the SKID's life hell. It smacks to me of game-playing plus it would be pretty obvious to everyone that that is what you're doing. Plus I was bullied as a child and this feels very much like bullying. I prefer my own solution that I now refuse to be in SD30's company since her abuse of me in 2022. She can come here - I won't ban my steps from being in what is DH's home as well as mine - but I will go elsewhere for the duration.

I don't either, Kes. Nor doing the same to adults. I honestly do not understand devoting so much time and energy to negativity. People who treat me badly do not deserve a place in my life. I will certainly not give them one with a constant effort of making someone’s misery my 'fondest hobby'. If I had done this to my skids, I would be the monster that BioHo claimed I was and most likely be divorced. And we certainly would not have the loving relationships we do now.

LifeIsTough · 10/17/2025 6:35 am

Kes wrote:
I don't like Rags' advice to make the SKID's life hell. It smacks to me of game-playing plus it would be pretty obvious to everyone that that is what you're doing. Plus I was bullied as a child and this feels very much like bullying. I prefer my own solution that I now refuse to be in SD30's company since her abuse of me in 2022. She can come here - I won't ban my steps from being in what is DH's home as well as mine - but I will go elsewhere for the duration.

This is the thing. I haven't really anywhere to go when she is here. My partner is happy for me to suffer and not support me when I tell him how awkward she makes me feel by excluding me in conversations and not being in the same room as me when she is here. He is also to blame I feel as the support he is not giving me and just not talking about it and carrying on as normal is killing me. Honestly he is a.huge coward. I'm worried I'm going to burst in to an irrational state and just leave.

Might just go and park my car up somewhere tonight for a few hours until it's bed time so I can come home and go to bed, seeing as she is here all weekend!

Aniki-Moderator · 10/17/2025 7:18 am

LifeIsTough wrote:
Kes wrote:
I don't like Rags' advice to make the SKID's life hell. It smacks to me of game-playing plus it would be pretty obvious to everyone that that is what you're doing. Plus I was bullied as a child and this feels very much like bullying. I prefer my own solution that I now refuse to be in SD30's company since her abuse of me in 2022. She can come here - I won't ban my steps from being in what is DH's home as well as mine - but I will go elsewhere for the duration.
This is the thing. I haven't really anywhere to go when she is here. My partner is happy for me to suffer and not support me when I tell him how awkward she makes me feel by excluding me in conversations and not being in the same room as me when she is here. He is also to blame I feel as the support he is not giving me and just not talking about it and carrying on as normal is killing me. Honestly he is a.huge coward. I'm worried I'm going to burst in to an irrational state and just leave.

Might just go and park my car up somewhere tonight for a few hours until it's bed time so I can come home and go to bed, seeing as she is here all weekend!

LifeIsTough, I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this and that your partner is being such a jerk. I wish we were close by and I could offer you a few hours or a place to stay for the night.

LifeIsTough · 10/17/2025 7:35 am

Aniki-Moderator wrote:
LifeIsTough wrote:
Kes wrote:
I don't like Rags' advice to make the SKID's life hell. It smacks to me of game-playing plus it would be pretty obvious to everyone that that is what you're doing. Plus I was bullied as a child and this feels very much like bullying. I prefer my own solution that I now refuse to be in SD30's company since her abuse of me in 2022. She can come here - I won't ban my steps from being in what is DH's home as well as mine - but I will go elsewhere for the duration.
This is the thing. I haven't really anywhere to go when she is here. My partner is happy for me to suffer and not support me when I tell him how awkward she makes me feel by excluding me in conversations and not being in the same room as me when she is here. He is also to blame I feel as the support he is not giving me and just not talking about it and carrying on as normal is killing me. Honestly he is a.huge coward. I'm worried I'm going to burst in to an irrational state and just leave.

Might just go and park my car up somewhere tonight for a few hours until it's bed time so I can come home and go to bed, seeing as she is here all weekend!
LifeIsTough, I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this and that your partner is being such a jerk. I wish we were close by and I could offer you a few hours or a place to stay for the night.

Thank you. I wish you were too, since we are all experiencing step hell in some way or another :-)

Kes · 10/17/2025 8:28 am

LifeIsTough - you said you might "burst into an irrational state and just leave." I don't think this would be an irrational state AT ALL - it is totally rational to want to leave someone who is not acknowledging your feelings of distress at being stonewalled. When my SDs would come EOW, I used to spend a lot of time either in the garden, working, in another room from them, or go out shopping. I'm assuming because you said you have nowhere to go that you don't have a friend or family member you could go to for a few hours? If so, that's really hard. I'm so sorry.

Tryingjusttrying · 10/17/2025 9:09 am

@lifeistough,unfortunately, I identify with your situation all too well. For various reasons, my dh did not/does not back me up, but it's gotten so much better in the last year or two. First of all, I think you should make sure that even if no one else in the situation does, you take care of you - recognize that your feelings as worthy and valid, and that you deserve to be treated well. Secondly, what I've learned is that it's never about the Skids themselves, but about how the partner manages the situation. If DH had shut down SS's attempts to bully me from the very get-go, both SS and I would have been better off both separately and in our relationship.

For a long time, and still now, I was relying on trying to change hearts and minds by making my case to dh in small ways when I could. I was hoping that if he could understand me, he would change. But that was never going to work. So long as I just emoted and went along with everything, the easiest thing for dh to do was to keep doing the same thing. But now, I'm taking action. I'm being more assertive about putting down boundaries. I have been pleasantly surprised that even when dh doesn't necessarily understand or agree with me, he will comply. I think it helps that we've been to marriage counseling several times now, and both counselors were like 'what is wrong with your wife's requests?' It's hard to figure out, but in dh's mind, it's a zero-sum game between SS and me. One of us wins and gets his way in everything and one of us loses and gets nothing. I think part of that dynamic has to do with the fact that early on, SS would always put that out there to DH that it was either him or me, but never both. If I walked into the room, SS would either leave or refuse to interact with either of us. Behind my back, SS was telling DH how much he hated me and wanted to get rid of me. So though DH did so reluctantly, he thought he felt he had to chose between me and SS, and except for in the most extreme cases, his child always won out. It has to do with his guilt, societal tropes about the evil step mom, psychological assumptions about children always being innocent and the pressures to protect the child at all costs. I think that DH has learned that accommodating my needs did not mean that he was betraying his child. In fact, it's an overall good to protect me, and it models how SS should treat his wife in the future, and how to respect people in general. You don't do any favors to a child when you give them the message, 'when you feel frustrated or angry, it's okay to take it out on someone else. You don't have to cope with it in a healthy way.' That does no favors to SS's future wife, friends, colleagues, etc.