Love this update @Trudie! Sounds like a wonderful holiday. Watch for regressions but ultimately love how your DH is seeing his family for who they are. Great update! P.S.- YES about kind people not being selectively kind. We see this time and time again- I saw this with one SKID and the family he married into very "Kind" to each other and extremely unfriendly and unkind to non-family members. 

WarMachine13-Mod wrote:

Friend of mine grew up in a bad dysfunctional family. His dad left when his mom was pregnant with his little brother. She took it out on him. Brother was sickly but a troublemaker. Mom took it out on him. If you remember those metal racecar tracks, the ones that were copperish color and rolled up with sharp sides. She beat him with that sometimes. Still has scars on his legs from some bad cuts. He's a hard worker and great guy no thanks to his lousy family.

Some things will never make sense. It sounds like your friend has made the best of a hard situation. Does he have contact with his family at all?

This is such good news! And I know what you mean by selectively kind. I still have scars from all the knives that were shoved into my back over the years.
My disengaging from DH's eldest daughter & sisters led to an extinction burst that blew up the whole family. Most of them no longer see/talk to each other. I never imagined it could happen & certainly didn't want it to. I just wanted peace, & DH opted to follow me.

Trudie wrote:

ImperfectlyPerfect wrote:

Love this update @Trudie! Sounds like a wonderful holiday. Watch for regressions but ultimately love how your DH is seeing his family for who they are. Great update! P.S.- YES about kind people not being selectively kind. We see this time and time again- I saw this with one SKID and the family he married into very "Kind" to each other and extremely unfriendly and unkind to non-family members. 

Thank you, @ImperfectlyPerfect! Yes, it was a wonderful holiday - and he made it through, there were some shaky moments that week before the holiday. I believe the guilt was setting in; for what though? Saying "No" to dysfunction? It is sobering - and sad - how something so simple can be so hard for someone conditioned to be the giver, stuff their needs, and smooth the edges for everyone else. 
Yes, the concept of "kindness" is interesting. I am really interested to know, how did the family treat SKID? Just the other day, DH and I were talking about how his family is "kind" to him, but I have had a very different experience with them. Important to note: Are they really kind to him when they disrespect his wife, his marriage, and (indirectly) HIM? The answer for me is a resounding "No!"
 

 
Yes it is not kind to your DH, but the odd thing is they stomach it even if the disrespect to you is indirectly unkind to him. Bravo to both of you for enjoying your holiday even through the shaky pre-holiday jitters.  

Last edited by ImperfectlyPerfect (1/04/2026 9:49 pm)

MorningMia wrote:

Trudie wrote:

MorningMia wrote:

I love quiet, peaceful holidays! Congratulations! 

I learned through one of my sisters that people can be nice but very unkind, and the two get mixed up. My sister is a super nice person--a charmer who can chat up any stranger, laughs a lot, a great cook who loves to make meals for people, the life of the party. But she is horribly unkind--a gossip monger, a liar, a game player. 

So, probably like your husband, I grew up hearing how NICE everyone in my family was and believed them. I was very confused when I began to come out of that fog!

Thank you, Mia!
This is very interesting. I can recall you mentioning your sister before; what is your relationship like now? How did you reconcile your ingrained beliefs about your family with reality?
 

I have two sisters. I do not have relationships with them, and they don't have relationships with each other. The one described here is a malignant narcissist with some paranoid delusions. She took family estate issues to a new level and has told anyone who will listen that the rest of us stole thousands of dollars from her and kept hidden bank accounts. She's always the victim when she doesn't get her way (which is sucking up all the air in the room, receiving more than everyone else, etc.). She "used" this delusion to try to turn her kids against the rest of us (see, I had some experience with this sort of behavior in dealing with BM); the other sister is a major hypochondriac who was abusive to two husbands (picture our worst HCBMs). During COVID, my brother joked that she was probably out licking doorknobs in order to get "long COVID." Well, if that wasn't an accurate prediction. She added long COVID to her long, long list of reasons she should be supported and waited on by others. She, too, lives in somewhat of a  delusional world (my brother diagnosed her with Peter Pan Syndrome--entitled, lazy, immature) and was unaccepting of healthy boundaries ("You cannot drone on to me for hours about problems you insist there are no solutions for"). Watch out, world. If there's a lawsuit to be filed against you, she'll do it.  And those are just the Cliffs Notes. lol. 

Although I was the rebel in the family, and definitely the family scapegoat because I spoke up, it was still  devastating for me to reconcile the family narrative with reality (this is in regard to sister #1 many years ago), but it was one of the most freeing things I ever did. Yes, I fell into a deep depression and sought counseling, and then moved forward. One person said, "I wondered when you would see the truth." WHAT?! 

My brother and I don't dwell on these two, but sometimes have snorting-laughter conversations when we occasionally hear about their antics through the grapevine. We definitely use humor as a way to "deal." 

And, yes, sometimes I ask DH, "Am I also nuts but, like them,don't see it?" I have to keep a check on myself 

I really *get* this @morningmia. Good for you for being able to recognize it for what it is. I have 1 troubled sibling- on the outside totally perfect sweetheart that the outside world thinks could do no harm- on the inside it is chaotic, problematic and swirls with drama. I gray rock. It was actually the bad behavior of my SKIDs that helped my own family situation resurface realizing there was a "no win" within my own family origin with a particular relationship. Similarly this stepfamily life created a "no win." The gift in dealing with difficult SKIDs was suddenly drawing on my experience with my sister who is also a victim, blaming and twists realities. Many years and a lot of therapy later I see through the crazy stuff and the holidays at a time to be together there was the sister causing problems and distracting. It reminded me so much of SKID scenarios over and over again. 
 

ImperfectlyPerfect wrote:

MorningMia wrote:

Trudie wrote:

Thank you, Mia!
This is very interesting. I can recall you mentioning your sister before; what is your relationship like now? How did you reconcile your ingrained beliefs about your family with reality?
 

I have two sisters. I do not have relationships with them, and they don't have relationships with each other. The one described here is a malignant narcissist with some paranoid delusions. She took family estate issues to a new level and has told anyone who will listen that the rest of us stole thousands of dollars from her and kept hidden bank accounts. She's always the victim when she doesn't get her way (which is sucking up all the air in the room, receiving more than everyone else, etc.). She "used" this delusion to try to turn her kids against the rest of us (see, I had some experience with this sort of behavior in dealing with BM); the other sister is a major hypochondriac who was abusive to two husbands (picture our worst HCBMs). During COVID, my brother joked that she was probably out licking doorknobs in order to get "long COVID." Well, if that wasn't an accurate prediction. She added long COVID to her long, long list of reasons she should be supported and waited on by others. She, too, lives in somewhat of a  delusional world (my brother diagnosed her with Peter Pan Syndrome--entitled, lazy, immature) and was unaccepting of healthy boundaries ("You cannot drone on to me for hours about problems you insist there are no solutions for"). Watch out, world. If there's a lawsuit to be filed against you, she'll do it.  And those are just the Cliffs Notes. lol. 

Although I was the rebel in the family, and definitely the family scapegoat because I spoke up, it was still  devastating for me to reconcile the family narrative with reality (this is in regard to sister #1 many years ago), but it was one of the most freeing things I ever did. Yes, I fell into a deep depression and sought counseling, and then moved forward. One person said, "I wondered when you would see the truth." WHAT?! 

My brother and I don't dwell on these two, but sometimes have snorting-laughter conversations when we occasionally hear about their antics through the grapevine. We definitely use humor as a way to "deal." 

And, yes, sometimes I ask DH, "Am I also nuts but, like them,don't see it?" I have to keep a check on myself 

I really *get* this @morningmia. Good for you for being able to recognize it for what it is. I have 1 troubled sibling- on the outside totally perfect sweetheart that the outside world thinks could do no harm- on the inside it is chaotic, problematic and swirls with drama. I gray rock. It was actually the bad behavior of my SKIDs that helped my own family situation resurface realizing there was a "no win" within my own family origin with a particular relationship. Similarly this stepfamily life created a "no win." The gift in dealing with difficult SKIDs was suddenly drawing on my experience with my sister who is also a victim, blaming and twists realities. Many years and a lot of therapy later I see through the crazy stuff and the holidays at a time to be together there was the sister causing problems and distracting. It reminded me so much of SKID scenarios over and over again. 
 

I appreciate this. Yes! My narcissist sister would be spoken of commonly as "Poor [insert name]." She incredibly had fairly extravagant annual vacations paid for by one of her friends--it was so strange that she was never wealthy but almost all of her friends were. It was disgusting. She had so many people fooled. Through the years, though, her spell wore off as more people became aware of her gossiping and backstabbing. I know of at least one marriage she helped push toward destruction through her rumor-mongering. No secret was ever kept by that one. 

Not my sib, but my bride's sister and my BIL1's bovine bride's  waffling between the rageing manipulative completely hollow sense of superiority biotch that she has decades of behaviors as, and ... the poor victim suffering from whatever syndrome of the moment she can land on to deflect with when people have had enough of her raging bovine biotch crap and bare her back side.  She was with the school district for nearly 15yrs and could never get a full time role. So no benefits, no retirement, etc...   BIL1's boss who is a prominent business owner in a tiny town next to the still tiny but less tiny town they all live in.  BIL1's boss got the bovine bride a job as the admin at the local water company office. She is the only employee in the office. She does the filing, billing, etc.  The office is only open to customers two days a week, the other three workdays she is in the back not torturing anyone with her usual noxious behaviors.

My SIL is all about her own hollow sense of superiority, always knows more than her far more experienced coworkers, her idiot bosses, etc... then when she gets fired it about her being the victim and how mean everyone was at her last job.   Her pattern is so predictable that every time she lands her next job the script is identical. She does great for the first few months, then starts having attendance issues because... some bull-and starts with the "my boss is mean", I know best, my boss is an idiot, everyone sucks but me..... Then... poof.  She gets canned or stages some honor driven resignation because .... fill in the blank.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

She landed the only job she likely will ever have that can give her benefits and a retirement.  But... the script is already playing again.  She is in year 3 with the local school district.  This year she was paired as a SN classroom assistant with a different teacher in a different school.  That ticked her off so... everyone in the district is now an idiot. The new teacher she was pared with quickly reached the point where they were done with her and filed complaints.  SIL was moved to another teacher and is miserable.  Though she postures that she told the district whats up and put them in their place.  She caps that with claiming that the are begging her to finish her degree and become a teacher but she will not put of with being a teacher for what teachers make. Of course she makes less than a pittance as a teacher's aid. But... reality is a galaxy far far away for my SIL.  Reality is that the university would cringe if they saw her walk back on campus to try to cry her way to getting them to confer a degree.  She claims to have only 6 semester hours to complete which ignores the multiple dozens of hours of classes he failed and never repeated before she was finally banned from any more school loans or registering for any more classes.  Because, they are mean of course.

My bride is extremely empathetic and periodically will step into feelings of guilt over her sister and SIL and their serial stuff.  Then they both drag her back into reality with their usual.....

My IL clan has a collective incredible ability to live in a state of Ostrich syndrome or have a blank stare smile as the Emperor rides by butt neked while they admire the Emeror's new clothes. My wife does not suffer from those IL clan syndromes, but she does feel periodic guilt over not being able to ignore that collective family condition.

I sorry that many have challenging sib behaviors to deal with.  Some never outgrow the lack of character that starts in childhood.  That makes it hard for everyone else who is aware that these people are people we are supposed to love but do not deserve or earn that love.

My SS used just about those same words in reference to the SpermClan after returning from his final COd visitation. I paraphrase.  'I know I am supposed to love them, but I have no respect for them or many of the things that they do.  How can I love them?'

He has dealt with it as an adult by completely writing them off and has been no contact for approaching a decade.  Not that they ever reach out to him.  They don't. Once he put them in their place when they demanded that he repay the 17yrs of CS they paid for his support, then again when they tried to guilt him into helping support his three younger also out of wedlock Spermidiot spawned have sibs by two other baby mamas, they have pretty much crawled and remained under their slime covered rock at the bottom of their shallow and polluted gene pool in retreat.  A fate that being his incredible mom's son saved him from.

Last edited by Rags (1/06/2026 10:45 pm)

MorningMia wrote:

ImperfectlyPerfect wrote:

MorningMia wrote:

I appreciate this. Yes! My narcissist sister would be spoken of commonly as "Poor [insert name]." She incredibly had fairly extravagant annual vacations paid for by one of her friends--it was so strange that she was never wealthy but almost all of her friends were. It was disgusting. She had so many people fooled. Through the years, though, her spell wore off as more people became aware of her gossiping and backstabbing. I know of at least one marriage she helped push toward destruction through her rumor-mongering. No secret was ever kept by that one. 

Yep. Your sister sounds difficult. My sister is a perpetual victim who twists the reality just enough to be hurt. It's so sad. I tried so many years for a relationship even through some pretty big betrayals. I even looked past her behavior where she would purposefully take the little nieces and tell one of them that "your aunt loves you less because she didn't do x, y or z for you." I literally overheard it and I couldn't believe my ears. However, the straw that broke the camel's back was her claim that I stole and committed abuse- sent her husband after me for it. After that moment and being able to (THROUGH A CAMERA SYSTEM) clearly show that did not happen and even with the evidence it did not back down these allegations. I realized after all that I was done. Been peaceful ever since. I saw her recently and she was stirring up drama with others - I simply turned into a large unmovable boulder and gray rocked her and the drama she was creating. When she would try to "engage me" I pretended I was sleeping and refused to interact directly unless it involved the rest of the family. It's exactly how I handle the SKIDs too.  
 

I swear, they all come off an assembly line. My sister told a nephew that I bought him a gift with money I stole from her. 

Pretend to be sleeping. I love that in both the literal and figurative way! It's such great life advice! lol! 

LOL they do come off an assembly line. Yes, feel free to use my "play dead" method if ever in a situation with your sister that you know you cannot win. As I get older- falling asleep randomly seems more plausible in everybody's eyes.