Good for you in making your own space for peace. 

Adult SK's like mine and yours are narcissistic. The selfishness, manipulation, triangulation, and a desire for revenge when their delusions are illuminated. 

I have never been connected to SD's on social media and never will be. It's bad enough having to deal with them in person. 

Yesterday DH said to me, "SD's have too much of BM in them." I have no idea what prompted his comment.

He has ongoing communication with the Sdiablas via text. I don't know and don't care what they talk about but the fact that he said that they are too much like BM tells me that there must be trouble in paradise. It reaffirms that removing myself from the drama protects my peace. It allows him to experience the full-force of their nasty, controlling, manipulative behavior on his own without me becoming a meat-shield. The infighting begins. I can't be SD's target or excuse for their behavior. The whiny "We just want our Daaaaaaaaad." (and for me to disappear) is gone because I HAVE disappeared. They are free to be their horrid selves without me being a part of the equation. DH also mentioned that he hopes OSD didn't make a mistake in quitting the good job she had in favor of a job in an industry that is based on luxury services. I told DH I don't know much about it and left it at that. Between me & you ST'ers I think her job will dry up, especially in the current economy where people are struggling to afford the basics, much less the extras and of course there is AI which makes a lot of jobs obsolete. Then there is the problem of YSD who can't keep a job for longer than 2 weeks. I haven't heard a peep about how things are going in her new job (and her job is always a new job) but I suspect she hates it and she's miserable and waa waa waa. After all, it has been over 2 weeks since she started it. The last time we saw OSD she couldn't wait to tell DH how unhappy YSD was at the job that she just quit and how much she hated it. Blah blah blah, poor wittle sissy, always a victim ... Just like BM. 

Well done, MorningMia, good on you, and I'm so glad that peace reigns in your household now. You said you sometimes wish you'd stood your ground sooner.  This is something I too wish - that I had been better at standing up for myself, sooner than I was.  But we're good people - we always try and do the right thing - and for many years (too many) I did this, but it never worked. The SDs don't see me as a person.  To give an example - this weekend, DH has gone to visit SD28 where she now lives, in Exeter, Devon, ie 200 miles from where we now live.  I grew up in a small town 15 miles from Exeter - but neither of the SDs is aware of this. They have never shown the slightest interest in anything about me.  Hey ho.   I hope their lives go well, but I don't want to have anything to do with them any more.  

"And I don't GAF what you think of me or the picture you paint of me. I do not care"

I'm right there with you. I got to this point quickly for 2 reasons.
1. The wise advice of other step-parents, here and elsewhere helped me understand faster than I would have on my own.
2. My ex is a narcissist and I am all out of F's to give for narcissists'. 
Not to say I didn't give SD's a fair chance. They had years to grow up and they haven't done it. 

Don't beat yourself up Mia for losing it. We're only human and these awful SK's know how to push us over the edge. They were in your house during a crisis making things worse. Anyone would lose it. Anyone who thinks you are wrong has never had to live with awful adult SK's actively trying to drive you crazy. 

 

Merry wrote:

I’m glad for your peace. It’s great, isn’t it?

It’s also about two years for me since SD announced that she didnt want to see her father anymore because…. ??? We can only speculate but we hold similar opinions. She refuses to discuss it.

No more drama. No more twisting ourselves inside out to avoid her wrath or jump to her commands. DH has handled the whole thing pretty well. I think her absence is freeing for him in some ways too.

So nice! Congratulations! 

Meera wrote:

"And I don't GAF what you think of me or the picture you paint of me. I do not care"

Don't beat yourself up Mia for losing it. 

 

I don't. I laugh about it now. I especially laugh that at one point when I yelled, the skids scrambled out of the house into the dark like bats out of hell. I scared them. The big bad passive aggressive bullies were suddenly no longer big and bad. And I giggle over what I imagine they told their mother. *rowrrrr* I'm mean. 

Last edited by MorningMia (11/10/2025 11:33 am)

It is sad to hear that so many people have experienced such similar things at the hands of a mate's noxious spawn.

What stands out to me the most is how many have mates that are such failed parents and f ailed adults that they tolerate this kind of behavior by their children towards their spouse.  Yes, it is on the noxious spawn, but IMHO it is far more on the shoulders of the failed parent who tolerates this kind of crap from their children.

There was a time when this type of thing just did not happen because nothing remotely like this would be tolerated by parents from any child under any circumstance.  Whether that child was an adult or not.  Even less would it be tolerated by the target of the spawn's noxiousness.   

I have not had anything remotely similar to this to deal with as far as the behavior of my SKid is concerned.  Beating the toxic opposition into submission is nowhere near as emotionally draining or challenging as is dealing with the noxious spawn of someone we have chosen to make a life with.

In my no gray world there is a clear line. What is acceptable and what is not acceptable.  What is not acceptable is dealt with immediately, directly, and without quarter. If the person being dealt with fails to comply with what it takes for them to be tolerated, they choose to live a state of escalating abject misery.

Most people will not do this kind of thing and fewer will do it twice when their choices cause them immediate discomfort.

I suppose that for the progenitor of these noxious spawn, it appears to be a the kids or the spouse thing. IMHO that is exactly the choice the progenitor should be held to.  Fix it or be gone with them and their noxious spawn. I could not imagine ever giving my parents that situation to deal with.  It would not have gone well for me if I had.



 

Rags wrote:

It is sad to hear that so many people have experienced such similar things at the hands of a mate's noxious spawn.

What stands out to me the most is how many have mates that are such failed parents and f ailed adults that they tolerate this kind of behavior by their children towards their spouse.  Yes, it is on the noxious spawn, but IMHO it is far more on the shoulders of the failed parent who tolerates this kind of crap from their children.

There was a time when this type of thing just did not happen because nothing remotely like this would be tolerated by parents from any child under any circumstance.  Whether that child was an adult or not.  Even less would it be tolerated by the target of the spawn's noxiousness.   

I have not had anything remotely similar to this to deal with as far as the behavior of my SKid is concerned.  Beating the toxic opposition into submission is nowhere near as emotionally draining or challenging as is dealing with the noxious spawn of someone we have chosen to make a life with.

In my no gray world there is a clear line. What is acceptable and what is not acceptable.  What is not acceptable is dealt with immediately, directly, and without quarter. If the person being dealt with fails to comply with what it takes for them to be tolerated, they choose to live a state of escalating abject misery.

Most people will not do this kind of thing and fewer will do it twice when their choices cause them immediate discomfort.

I suppose that for the progenitor of these noxious spawn, it appears to be a the kids or the spouse thing. IMHO that is exactly the choice the progenitor should be held to.  Fix it or be gone with them and their noxious spawn. I could not imagine ever giving my parents that situation to deal with.  It would not have gone well for me if I had.



 

What Trying points out, though, is spot on: the passive aggressive behavior that is easier to hide from the bio parent vs. the outright rude behavior. In cases that were obvious, my DH normally corrected the skids and "had talks" with them. That just made them grow more clever.
Earlier on, there were many things I ignored because I didn't want to look like an arse for bringing attention to "such a minor thing." DH was particularly fooled by SD back then, as every time he would confront her, the waterworks came on--and not just little sobs, but full-blown dramatic gagging crying episodes. She always denied knowing what he was talking about. After a while, he caught on. It was all so disgusting. 
When he was recovering, of course, he wasn't seeing s***, as he was passed out for the most part on the recliner while I dealt with the animals. 
Interestingly enough, DH told me last night that he really doesn't like going to visit SD & is planning to curb his already infrequent visits (she's the one with the grands--I mean dangling carrots). 
 

ETA: sorry for the long post. I didn't know that I was going to rant as I did...

@morningmia. They just get more clever, so true. I'm sorry (not sorry) to make this comparison, but they say that therapy rarely works on psychopaths; it just teaches them more precisely how empathetic people think and act which helps them mimic them more to be more effective at conning people. My SS and BM used to have sobbing, screaming, emoting matches. It was a form of triangulation. My DH was so full of guilt and he has a strong sense of duty, which is a combination that makes him particularly vulnerable to SS's and BM's manipulations. At first, it started out as BM calling DH to yell and sob about how difficult SS was. She also sometimes demanded in person meetings where she ranted and held court, and demanded DH back her up. DH always complied because he thought he needed to back up her parenting since he worked so much and had to relinquish responsibility to her. But when SS became a teen, he started yelling and sobbing too. They would do that frequently either in person or on the phone. There was always some dramatic issue at hand and dh thought he was obliged to make peace. But the more he tried, the more they raged. They weren't interested in making peace. They were interested in his attention and his worrying because they are like emotional vampires.

At some point, I convinced DH to stop feeding into their psycho-drama and to stop giving them attention. It was hard for dh to walk away or hang up when SS was ranting and sobbing and carrying on. But he eventually did, and they learned that they weren't going to get his attention from emoting at him anymore, and they eventually completely stopped. That's how I know that it was, at least in part, performative. From then on, DH, with my encouragement, started to do his own parenting, and instead of yelling and punishing, he began to talk to SS calmly and tried to help him use his reason more. That's what I did with my child. But what I didn't anticipate was that SS learning to talk and say things that DH wanted to hear was also performative. 'So this is what is going to get me in his favor so that he can give me attention, buy me more things,etc.' SS has become very good at saying what DH wants to hear, but once in a while his actions will belie his talk.

SS also learned how to act around me in front of him to not get DH's ire because DH was feeding him ideas when they talked. SS satisfied DH enough which made DH start pressuring me to do all the things that he's dreamed about - mold me into the perfect mother-figure that SS lacked. But DH doesn't want to see that it's a façade, and that I am a human being, not a thing to be manipulated. SS aping behaviors to ensure the smooth functioning of his agenda is in such stark contrast to my own son's sincere desire for me and dh to be happy. My BS has sometimes made sacrifices to accommodate us. What SS does and BS does are apples and oranges and DH would see that if it was anyone else besides his only son.

Last edited by Tryingjusttrying (11/11/2025 11:49 pm)

Tryingjusttrying wrote:

ETA: sorry for the long post. I didn't know that I was going to rant as I did...

@morningmia. They just get more clever, so true. I'm sorry (not sorry) to make this comparison, but they say that therapy rarely works on psychopaths; it just teaches them more precisely how empathetic people think and act which helps them mimic them more to be more effective at conning people. My SS and BM used to have sobbing, screaming, emoting matches. It was a form of triangulation. My DH was so full of guilt and he has a strong sense of duty, which is a combination that makes him particularly vulnerable to SS's and BM's manipulations. At first, it started out as BM calling DH to yell and sob about how difficult SS was. She also sometimes demanded in person meetings where she ranted and held court, and demanded DH back her up. DH always complied because he thought he needed to back up her parenting since he worked so much and had to relinquish responsibility to her. But when SS became a teen, he started yelling and sobbing too. They would do that frequently either in person or on the phone. There was always some dramatic issue at hand and dh thought he was obliged to make peace. But the more he tried, the more they raged. They weren't interested in making peace. They were interested in his attention and his worrying because they are like emotional vampires.

At some point, I convinced DH to stop feeding into their psycho-drama and to stop giving them attention. It was hard for dh to walk away or hang up when SS was ranting and sobbing and carrying on. But he eventually did, and they learned that they weren't going to get his attention from emoting at him anymore, and they eventually completely stopped. That's how I know that it was, at least in part, performative. From then on, DH, with my encouragement, started to do his own parenting, and instead of yelling and punishing, he began to talk to SS calmly and tried to help him use his reason more. That's what I did with my child. But what I didn't anticipate was that SS learning to talk and say things that DH wanted to hear was also performative. 'So this is what is going to get me in his favor so that he can give me attention, buy me more things,etc.' SS has become very good at saying what DH wants to hear, but once in a while his actions will belie his talk.

SS also learned how to act around me in front of him to not get DH's ire because DH was feeding him ideas when they talked. SS satisfied DH enough which made DH start pressuring me to do all the things that he's dreamed about - mold me into the perfect mother-figure that SS lacked. But DH doesn't want to see that it's a façade, and that I am a human being, not a thing to be manipulated. SS aping behaviors to ensure the smooth functioning of his agenda is in such stark contrast to my own son's sincere desire for me and dh to be happy. My BS has sometimes made sacrifices to accommodate us. What SS does and BS does are apples and oranges and DH would see that if it was anyone else besides his only son.

This is extremely creepy and sadly familiar. The BM "crises" here mixed with SD wailing phone calls (and throwing the phone across the room) started when DH and I began dating. Most incidents occurred when I was not present; he would tell me about them (probably not about all of them) and was extremely concerned (also wracked with guilt and an extreme sense of responsibility). But too often, when we'd be on our way out for a date or weekend get-away, someone was suddenly suicidal or having sex at the age of 13 (it was ALL BS). DH "had" to drive 8 hours to help resolve the "issues." As you correctly call the crises, all performative. Thank you. Meanwhile, I had friends telling me to be gentle with SD--she was at such a *sob *sob sensitive age. It was clear to me who was driving the behavior. 

When DH learned to stop reacting (not panicking and falling for it all but instead talking sense to them), it stopped working, so PAS went into full force. SD didn't speak to us for 2 years following our wedding. Skids ignored DH during holidays and Fathers Days.  But money was needed when they aged out of CS, so they moved onto Phase 3--the more clever passive aggressive BS. Eventually, they (BM, SS & SD) realized they lost the competitive game they started. They never got what they wanted: our divorce and DH as a puppet on a string. Part of it was they recognized I wasn't going to keep tolerating their poor behavior and DH was not going to side with them, which was ALWAYS their goal. 

I appreciate your post. You wrapped it all up. I can completely relate. Psychopath might be the word of the day. 

Kes wrote:

Just a note to Rags - I would really appreciate it if you would not use phrases like "noxious spawn" (which you used 4 times in the above post) and "failed parent" - our partners are not failed parents and neither are we.  I find this kind of language supremely disrespectful. 

Supremely disrespectful is accurate. I tend to skip reading Rags posts because of that.

Last edited by Pol (11/12/2025 12:10 pm)

Pol wrote:

Kes wrote:

Just a note to Rags - I would really appreciate it if you would not use phrases like "noxious spawn" (which you used 4 times in the above post) and "failed parent" - our partners are not failed parents and neither are we.  I find this kind of language supremely disrespectful. 

Supremely disrespectful is accurate. I tend to skip reading Rags posts because of that.

Infighting isn’t helpful.

Glad to hear there is peace and stability without the constant stirring of drama by grown, PASed skids.

Tryingjusttrying wrote:

@morningmia, I can definitely relate. The marriage counselor before the one we have now had one mantra: "Protect the stepmom. Everyone has their knives out for her." In the beginning, so did DH in the sense that he was under a shared narrative with BM and SS, and I was someone they could instrumentalize. I think DH is glad to have shaken off that toxic narrative, though I think he's still under the spell in some ways. I'm glad that there was a light at the end of the tunnel for you. I'm hoping for the same.

It IS like a spell. And here, BM also thought I could be "managed" and used. The more I withdrew from the fray and DH had to deal with them by himself--I was no longer the buffer or scapegoat--the more that spell disintegrated. It honestly took him seeing by himself how poorly they treated him at times and their learned lack of respect for him. To their outside worlds, he doesn't even exist. The skids have honestly for the most part pretended they do not have a father. So, the  nicest (actually, only) thing DH says about them anymore is, "Well, they're not in jail or on drugs and they both have jobs now." Ok, bud. Cheers! Thumbs up! Wow!